maybe we learned to partake in rituals and tell complex stories through those rituals from our brother and sister hominid species wherever we ended up. maybe we influenced their culture and vice versa. everyone likes a yarn. we developed the capacity for language alongside them and we shared stories and rituals together in deep time.
depends on the hominid because some of them successfully interbred with archaic modern humans where others didn't make it long enough to meet us. the ones where they did get to meet us, i think of them as half-siblings to homo sapiens where others are more like our distant cousins
A superb piece of writing. Interesting to think that the light shining into New Grange could easily be seen as a deity. Today, Gods are rarely imagined as underworld Gods, and as we fill our lives and cities with light from screens, street lamps, cars, and modern mirrors, we have become less spiritual in the modern world. Churches today still rely on dark recesses and candles, reflecting the impression of a cave. Here's to more darkness!
You are so right! I long for the darkness of a darkmoon night! Backlighting has taken away so much of the brighness of the planets and stars that our ancestors saw.
I read that Venus shone brightly into Newgrange at certain times... heralding her pentaginal path across the sky every 8 years. Perhaps the ancients built Newgrange in honour of the "new" planet in our Underworld maybe at the end of the Younger Dryas...? She was seen with "long hair" - a trail of debris from when she was catapulted from the Asteroid belt way back when.
The Sun apparently emits dark rays. I find this facinating!
Too much light has dulled perspectives seen - like the dimensionality of the constellations seen in the night sky long ago. I have experienced this once only at a remote setting between high mountains far ftom any town or city... Each constellation I could see in perspective - some were closer than others like told about in the Zodiac... I also could see their home in the Milkyway Galaxy seen side on and the Asteroid Belt clearly.
A truly brilliant article!Thank you! Your research is inspjring!
I am writing about Aesclepius and see the parallels in him and his symbology as you have seen in so much else! I loved reading Jean Auel's 'Earth Children Series' and her work came to my mind and Plato's Cave, too. Through your article I am seeing the depth of the cave in new light. Fredy Silvaand Peter Kingsley helped me to understand the cave's deeper meaning to the ancients as well.
I have just received a news letter from the Megalithamania team all about the French palaeolithic caves...Lascaux in France included... so caves, bears and ritusl in caves have been on my mind for months ... as well as Cappadocia in Turkey and the many underground cities in this area as we had a studentfrom Istanbul staying with us from a village near Cappadocia! The end of the Younger Dryas and what happened during this time period had a pivotal impact on the psyche of humanity and the religions that evolved thereafter! The cave and underground became vital over 1200 yesrs ago for the survival of our species... Thank you for deepening my perspective of this time! Big appreciation.
I've seen the constellations and Milky Way spread out only when I camped in central France near the Dourdogne. Absolutely wonderful, there's no need for a phone when you have that every night, get a campfire, join your friends look at the stars and make up stories about what you see there. That same holiday I went to the Lascaux cave near Montignac. It was primal, I tell thee!
This is really interesting! I've never thought of this before. It's quite a good way to look at things.
However (and this is not to denigrate your point in the slightest; I find it fascinating!), could this not be a case of coincidence, rather than synchronicity? Correlation is not necessarily causation, after all. Neanderthal beliefs and practices were most likely far more complex and nuanced than we have enough evidence to speak to in our modern day.
You present a compelling argument, but there is the evidence, and then there is the interpretation. The evidence is unchanging and static; it is what it is and cannot be otherwise. Our interpretations thereof, however, depend largely on us. Could this be a case of backwards projection onto a culture that was just a bit too far back for us to get a decent cultural grip on? After all, we have evidence of ritual, certainly, and complex ritual at that, and we have evidence that it must have meant *something*, but we don't seem to have evidence of what that something is.
(I recognize, of course, the inherent flaw in the desire for "evidence of meaning"; such a thing isn't really capable of being proven without it being expressly written down, and we're dealing with a culture that we're pretty sure was pre-literate.)
None of this is meant to be discouraging or "haha I'm a reddit atheist and think your ideas are dumb"; I am in fact a Christian, though a natural skeptic, and I think your ideas are interesting and worth exploring further. I really liked this article, and the proposed theory! But I want to consider it further, if possible, and the questions I have are genuine, not rhetorical.
Neanderthals are not a different species — but one of our archaic ancestors. There is an unbroken line of inheritance from the Stone Age to our current religious traditions.
Quick addendum: I'm not asking for a defense of your faith. You have no reason to justify yourself to me or anyone else; your life is your own and no one can take that from you. I gave up on the defense of faith when I realized that everyone else believes their religions just as hard as I believe mine.
I just want to know what evidence you have from the Neanderthals themselves that tells you the meaning of their religious practices.
The evidence is in the overlapping tales and traditions of unknown origin from across the northern hemisphere. Their archetypes are observable in the Neanderthal sites.
I cannot even imagine how terrible and hopeless life must have been before the advent of Christianity. All those dinosaurs, Australopithecus, Neanderthals, Egyptians and Chinese didn't know Jesus. How could they have been happy at all? Where did they get their morals from? Are they all in hell or purgatory now?
maybe we learned to partake in rituals and tell complex stories through those rituals from our brother and sister hominid species wherever we ended up. maybe we influenced their culture and vice versa. everyone likes a yarn. we developed the capacity for language alongside them and we shared stories and rituals together in deep time.
well said, but are they a different species, or are they us?
depends on the hominid because some of them successfully interbred with archaic modern humans where others didn't make it long enough to meet us. the ones where they did get to meet us, i think of them as half-siblings to homo sapiens where others are more like our distant cousins
A superb piece of writing. Interesting to think that the light shining into New Grange could easily be seen as a deity. Today, Gods are rarely imagined as underworld Gods, and as we fill our lives and cities with light from screens, street lamps, cars, and modern mirrors, we have become less spiritual in the modern world. Churches today still rely on dark recesses and candles, reflecting the impression of a cave. Here's to more darkness!
Exactly 🌌 and thank you.
You are so right! I long for the darkness of a darkmoon night! Backlighting has taken away so much of the brighness of the planets and stars that our ancestors saw.
I read that Venus shone brightly into Newgrange at certain times... heralding her pentaginal path across the sky every 8 years. Perhaps the ancients built Newgrange in honour of the "new" planet in our Underworld maybe at the end of the Younger Dryas...? She was seen with "long hair" - a trail of debris from when she was catapulted from the Asteroid belt way back when.
The Sun apparently emits dark rays. I find this facinating!
Too much light has dulled perspectives seen - like the dimensionality of the constellations seen in the night sky long ago. I have experienced this once only at a remote setting between high mountains far ftom any town or city... Each constellation I could see in perspective - some were closer than others like told about in the Zodiac... I also could see their home in the Milkyway Galaxy seen side on and the Asteroid Belt clearly.
A truly brilliant article!Thank you! Your research is inspjring!
I am writing about Aesclepius and see the parallels in him and his symbology as you have seen in so much else! I loved reading Jean Auel's 'Earth Children Series' and her work came to my mind and Plato's Cave, too. Through your article I am seeing the depth of the cave in new light. Fredy Silvaand Peter Kingsley helped me to understand the cave's deeper meaning to the ancients as well.
I have just received a news letter from the Megalithamania team all about the French palaeolithic caves...Lascaux in France included... so caves, bears and ritusl in caves have been on my mind for months ... as well as Cappadocia in Turkey and the many underground cities in this area as we had a studentfrom Istanbul staying with us from a village near Cappadocia! The end of the Younger Dryas and what happened during this time period had a pivotal impact on the psyche of humanity and the religions that evolved thereafter! The cave and underground became vital over 1200 yesrs ago for the survival of our species... Thank you for deepening my perspective of this time! Big appreciation.
Diana van der Westhuizen. (westindiana@gmail.com)
Thanks Diana! Good luck with your research.
I've seen the constellations and Milky Way spread out only when I camped in central France near the Dourdogne. Absolutely wonderful, there's no need for a phone when you have that every night, get a campfire, join your friends look at the stars and make up stories about what you see there. That same holiday I went to the Lascaux cave near Montignac. It was primal, I tell thee!
This is really interesting! I've never thought of this before. It's quite a good way to look at things.
However (and this is not to denigrate your point in the slightest; I find it fascinating!), could this not be a case of coincidence, rather than synchronicity? Correlation is not necessarily causation, after all. Neanderthal beliefs and practices were most likely far more complex and nuanced than we have enough evidence to speak to in our modern day.
You present a compelling argument, but there is the evidence, and then there is the interpretation. The evidence is unchanging and static; it is what it is and cannot be otherwise. Our interpretations thereof, however, depend largely on us. Could this be a case of backwards projection onto a culture that was just a bit too far back for us to get a decent cultural grip on? After all, we have evidence of ritual, certainly, and complex ritual at that, and we have evidence that it must have meant *something*, but we don't seem to have evidence of what that something is.
(I recognize, of course, the inherent flaw in the desire for "evidence of meaning"; such a thing isn't really capable of being proven without it being expressly written down, and we're dealing with a culture that we're pretty sure was pre-literate.)
None of this is meant to be discouraging or "haha I'm a reddit atheist and think your ideas are dumb"; I am in fact a Christian, though a natural skeptic, and I think your ideas are interesting and worth exploring further. I really liked this article, and the proposed theory! But I want to consider it further, if possible, and the questions I have are genuine, not rhetorical.
Neanderthals are not a different species — but one of our archaic ancestors. There is an unbroken line of inheritance from the Stone Age to our current religious traditions.
Of course they're not a different specied. I never said otherwise.
*species
Quick addendum: I'm not asking for a defense of your faith. You have no reason to justify yourself to me or anyone else; your life is your own and no one can take that from you. I gave up on the defense of faith when I realized that everyone else believes their religions just as hard as I believe mine.
I just want to know what evidence you have from the Neanderthals themselves that tells you the meaning of their religious practices.
The evidence is in the overlapping tales and traditions of unknown origin from across the northern hemisphere. Their archetypes are observable in the Neanderthal sites.
For specifics, refer to the articles.
I see; thank you!
I cannot even imagine how terrible and hopeless life must have been before the advent of Christianity. All those dinosaurs, Australopithecus, Neanderthals, Egyptians and Chinese didn't know Jesus. How could they have been happy at all? Where did they get their morals from? Are they all in hell or purgatory now?
No, but Jung influenced himself to believe that he was "The Aryan Christ," per Richard Noll's book. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/3005795773
bro cited his own goodreads review
What else would I cite to explain what a book about the truth about Jung is about?